Senator Biyi Durojaiye in this interview withADEOLA BALOGUN speak on various issues
The way you reel out dates and details of events does not portray a memory of an 80-year-old, what is the secret of that?
God’s grace is the first secret of what you have observed and what many people have also observed. People say I look younger than my age and that I look strong and virile, it is God’s grace. Another contributory factor is inherited good genes. My father was a very healthy person and he lived to nearly 87 and my mother too was a very healthy woman and she lived nearly 92 before she died. The other one is Spartan discipline; I am not an angel because I too had my fun when I was younger but I avoided excesses. The number of beer bottles I have taken in life can be counted on my finger tips.
I never smoked in my life; I have always been moderate in whatever I do. The final which is also an aspect of God’s grace is very happy domestic life with a very good woman and children. My wife was a God-given woman and my children whom I knew before they were born. I saw all of them before they were born and they came exactly as I saw them and in the order. They sat by me, two girls, one boy, two girls one boy long before they were born. So these are the reasons for what you have observed and I thank God.
What was your dream as a young boy?
The dream was to be a lawyer and at a time, I also wanted to be a soldier. Those were the two competitive interests I had. What killed the second one was my mum’s remark. She said, ‘my younger brother was in the army, he had standard six with others who didn’t go to school, they were soldiers. But I learnt you have read 10 books (iwe mewa, school certificate or standard ten). How can someone who has read 10 books (standard 10/school certificate) become a soldier?’ I explained to her that even graduates join the army but she said ‘that is not the type of job for an omoluabi like you’. Anyway, law was an attraction and it was what my father proposed.
But you graduated without being a lawyer.
I graduated both in economics and in law but I was in the public service. I was in the federal civil service for three years, civil service of the Western region for four years. Then back in the federal corporate service, Central Bank of Nigeria for 23 years and five years in the Mint. So, a total of 35 years in the public service of Nigeria, including 28 years in the CBN and the Mint before I went into law practice briefly, then national duties to politics. I spent more time outside of law than in law.
The impression people have about anyone who works in the CBN is that such a person is ‘working inside money…’
But that is true; even in our days, we worked in money. But it depends upon what control you have over your own appetite or self discipline against avarice. I don’t know whether the practice still continues, once any currency note got torn or dirty, we used to burn them. Scarcely there was any senior officer who didn’t have the experience of being the officer in charge of burning currency notes, notes that could still be used. The temptation has always been there; you would feel it and it would now be a matter of your strong will to allow the good conscience to win over temptation. Your mind would tell you, can’t I keep some away instead of burning everything? So, the temptation has always been there, but it depends on your attitude to money. My attitude to money has always been different; I have never been tempted or let me put it this way; I have always overcome temptation.
For some people, they can do that probably because of their religion or because they are comfortable. What was your own case?
There is something you have not mentioned, upbringing. Even before religion, upbringing is the first. The Yoruba would say ehinkule laawo kato somo loruko (you look at your background before you name your child) It is also hammered to your hearing to always remember whose child you are. My parents were exemplary; nothing in my family record has had any stain at all. My forebears were illustrious people in their own rights, no one with blemish and that was ingrained in us through our oriki. Even before I went to school and before I knew about Jesus Christ, I had always known the kind of training I received to be honest and transparent. Again, don’t say someone is honest or transparent until you have put him in a position of temptation; it is when he has survived being tempted that you can call him an honest person. A man as tough as the late Brig. Tunde Idiagbon specially commended me. After the return of democracy, just shortly before he died, he was asked in a very rare interview whether Nigerian politicians had learnt a lesson and he was quoted to have said, ‘No, they have not learnt any lesson. The only politician I respect in Nigeria is Otunba Adebiyi Durojaiye.’ That is a plus for me and I thank God for that. When the military government of he and Maj.-Gen. Muhammadu Buhari militarised the Mint and put the Pay Master General of the army in charge, Gen Abubakar Abdukabir, as the managing director, they put me next to him as executive director Finance and Commercial. I didn’t want to go but I learnt that it was Idiagbon who asked I should be put there. When the CBN governor then told me that I had been transferred to the Mint, Iasked why; because I was already planning to retire and go into law practice. So having been a director for eight years at the CBN, I felt I had had enough and so I could go and do what I had always dreamt of doing. But the CBN governor said ‘It is the prime minister of your country (Idiagbon) who said we should send you there; he sent your name and said you should come and assist the military man in running the place. They said they have your record of integrity.’
So how did Idiagbon know that?
I was the first treasurer of the alumni association of the National Institute of Policy and Strategic Studies, Kuru, Jos. I later became president, he knew me through that. That was how we got to know each other and he was highly impressed about the record I had.
Is it possible to work in that kind of environment and remain honest without incurring the wrath of colleagues? Or what was your own experience?
You have mixed the questions now; whether it is possible to work in the midst of people and not be tempted to join them? I have written that in my book. Then you asked whether it is possible to remain honest without incurring their wrath? It is difficult not to incur the wrath of others. They would label you as a pretender, holier than thou and what not. There are people who will not believe it could be true but over the years, I can tell you that it is true. There was a time someone senior to me instigated someone to forge my signature just to dent my image and when I shouted and insisted that police must come in, it was the same person that came to me and said we could resolve it in-house. I insisted that we must get to the root of the case because they knew I had just built a house and they wanted to rope me in, that I must have taken some money, so I challenged them. The police came and found out that the signature was forged and eventually we got to know who did it and the fellow left in disgrace. There were so many experiences which I have recorded in my book and I want many young people to read and I know they will learn a lot. It is not a question of advertisement, they will gain a lot.
How was it possible for you and your team to carry out a change of currency in a record time at the Mint?
That was why they called me in and that was what we achieved. We were commended and Idiagbon in particular commended me to say they were happy that we were able to complete the exercise they gave us within the scheduled time.
Why the sudden change?
The Buhari/Idiagbon administration which was truly a corrective regime believed that corruption was becoming endemic then. They wanted to correct all the ills and if they had stayed long enough, perhaps they would have found a permanent solution. Anyway, they wanted to change the currency because they had intelligence reports that some people had stockpiled money not even only in Nigeria but also outside the country. They believed that such a change would expose the corrupt elements and as the currency was being changed, they were monitoring the movement of money both within and outside the country.
At the time, the Mint was handling the printing of our currency, but nowadays we hear stories that we print outside. Can you enlighten Nigerians on this?
The volume is so great that the Mint may not be able to handle it, even in our time, those notes that we changed were printed outside by our partner, De la Rue, but when you are forthright in your work, you might step on toes. I think I stepped on the toes of De la Rue. They are our suppliers for most of the materials we use in printing currency notes and minting coins in Nigeria. But I just thought we should not allow the oyinbopeople to print for us and others in Africa since we already got the biggest security printing and minting in Africa except South Africa and some North African countries. I proposed that we solicit the patronage of other African countries which was approved by the board and I led the team. We toured West and East Africa leaving out South Africa which was under white rule and North Africa which identified more with the Arabs. We got support from West and East Africa and they started patronising us, though we never offered to print their currency notes because they might suspect we had ulterior motives. We only offered to print their security documents like postage stamp, certificates and others but the representative of De la Rue made a remark, ‘Duro, you are a very ambitious man, so you want to compete us out of Africa?’ He said it quietly but he meant it. What they did was to under-quote whatever we quoted in those countries and there was no way we could print at a profit by competing with them because we were buying all our materials from them or through them.
After spending so much time in the CBN, why did you still want to practice law?
Because it was my first love. Let me illustrate it this way, right from my youthful age, my father was a public letter writer in the rural setting of Ijebu Igbo and was always involved in law suits over land matters. He must have noticed some traits that showed I probably would be a good lawyer. We in Ijebu Igbo have common boundaries with Oyo, Ondo and Osun and our land was always at the boundary lines and there were a lot of squabbles with our neighbours. My father was going to court all the time over land disputes. All that might have prompted him to feel it’s good to have a lawyer son in the family. The idea to become a lawyer had been planted in me right from my elementary days and I grew up to like it.
But you didn’t practise for long before you jumped into politics.
I didn’t jump into politics. I embraced the idea of the two-party structure which was introduced by the military just about the time I voluntarily left the service and went to the Constituent Assembly to prepare a constitution which is not done now. Then, civil servants were allowed to retain their jobs and contest for places at the CA and still come back at the expiration of nine months or so. We produced the 1989 Constitution which unfortunately never saw the light of day. What the National Assembly people are doing now can not work because they are too busy with other duties. In any case, the genuine document that can serve as our constitution can only be worked out by all the segments of the society including the traditional rulers and ethnic minorities. We need to do that to have a workable constitution.
Some people say the 1914 amalgamation of Nigeria would work for only 100 years and after then, to your tents o Israel after 2014. What is your take on this?
I have always opposed disintegration. An experiment that has lasted 99 years now can be taken as a successful experiment. Even though I criticise the British for taking over this country but when you want to look at it, they administered this country better. The currency they introduced to us had greater purchasing power. I started working in 1954 and I was able to save and build a house as a bachelor without stealing or receiving bribe from anybody. Things were orderly, look at the time after I had four A level GCEs, I took up an appointment with the Chief Awolowo-led government with his efficient head of service, Chief Simeon Adebo. They introduced a middle cadre in the civil service for people of Western Nigeria who had three A level GCEs. That is how I was able to get the job and I was on a salary of £390 per annum. My rent at Oke Ado in Ibadan was £1 10’ a month and my transportation was one shilling a day and five in a week, about £1 in a month. Everything was very cheap. When I joined the service in 1957 in Ibadan, I noticed that food was much cheaper in Ibadan than in Lagos. As a bachelor, I was able to save and I built my first house and when I bought my first car, the government gave a loan of £600 to fresh graduates and Volks Wagen was £620 but as a tall person, I opted for a Peugeot and I added £240 from my savings. Things were better in those days, water supply and electricity where they were available were regular and dependable. Education was very sound, people with Standard 6 under colonial rule probably spoke better English than most graduates of today. So these are what to consider when you want to critise the British; it is the system that we should review, not that we disintegrate. And then, we should check ourselves because the corruption is too much. As a lawyer, it is not easy for me to advocate the death penalty. But when you see the wickedness of civil servants such as the police pension boss who stole billions of pensions of people who have served all their lives, I think he deserves nothing less than life imprisonment. The presidential system is too expensive, even the Americans have cried out that their system is becoming more expensive. That is why I am convinced that the parliamentary system is worth trying. If people are afraid of a national conference, let us adopt the 1960 Constitution which the likes of Nnamdi Azikiwe, Awolowo, Sarduana and so on operated. The best thing is to have a national conference to agree on how to live together.
As a civilian working at the CBN, why did you agree to go to the war front in the course of your duty?
It is a reflection of my lineage. We have reputation for courage in my family. The CBN wanted to know what happened to our Enugu branch which was affected by the war. I was in the administration department but there was nobody in the operations that was ready to embark on the journey because of the war. Like David did, I volunteered and I asked for the technical people to go with me and we wanted to know whether any money was left there. It was Theophilus Danjuma that we saw in Enugu. Before we got to Enugu, we met Gen. Shuwa in Makurdi(who was recently killed in Borno) and David Jemibewon. Jemibewon was a young Major then and he was surprised that civilians could venture to come to the war front and he vowed to ensure our safety and comfort. He got us the convoy and escorts and we travelled from Makurdi to Enugu where we met Danjuma, a very handsome young officer then. Some people have made remarks against Gowon and Awolowo about the war but we must commend what they did. The governor of the Bank of England who visited Nigeria at the end of the war commended Nigeria and the CBN for setting the record in world history for prosecuting a war without taking foreign loans and repaying the local ones in record time. We were the officers in charge at that time. We have a good history and we should not disintegrate but we should reform the system. Those who want disintegration have their reasons but we should sit down and talk and negotiate. I am for one country but better governed.
Is it correct to say that you got fully baptised into full time politics at the Constituent Assembly?
Every major step I have ever taken in life, I consult God. When the CA was winding up, I asked God what next step I should take, whether to go fully into politics like my colleagues at the CA like Segun Osoba, Dele Olumilua, Lam Adesina, Emeka Ezeife and many others. I also asked God whether I could combine politics and law just as people like Abraham Adesanya and Ayo Adebanjo and God told me in clear language to do that. That is why I went into politics.
What were the challenges you people had as the first Senate after a long period of the military regime?
The challenge we had was how to lay the foundation for a strong democracy. In September 2002, there was tension between the Senate led by Senator Pius Anyim and the executive led by Olusegun Obasanjo. While the Obasanjo government wanted Anyim and his deputy, Ibrahim Mantu, impeached, Anyim too wanted to get rid of Obasanjo and it was a serious fight. My intervention with other forces ensured that the crisis was averted. I gave a press conference where I talked against impeachment, especially to avoid being overrun by the military again. The media did a marvellous job and circulated the information. The Senate was parked by high quality people like Senator Ike Nwachukwu, who had been a general, a governor, a minister before becoming a senator. People like JK Waku, David Mark, Zwingina, Ita Giwa, the three Abubakars, Okunrounmu, Prof. Olabimtan and the Oyi of Oyi, Chuba Okadigbo. We brought a lot of experience to the Senate.
At 80, what is your message to Nigerians?
That we should have a rebirth about our attitude towards money. Nobody came with money to this world and nobody will go with it. The propensity to get money at all cost is getting too much and I think God can do it if we pray. I plead with our leaders to show example to the led for a better Nigeria.
Punch Nigeria
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